Curse

Richardt · Sep 04, 2008, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Actually, the Middle East thing can trace it's roots all the way back to Christian brutality during the Crusades. Read some of the terrorist letters-it's still very much a religious struggle and they see the US as leading the Western Crusader effort-and yes they still call us Crusaders!

So while a lot of the recent animosity is there due to Israel, all it really did was stir hatreds that go back 800 years.

Snow Bunny · Sep 04, 2008, 04:41 AM // 04:41

The US is held to such a high standard compared with the rest of the world. Every other nation gets away with barbaric shit and atrocties monthly and US companies can't start up a factory in another country without protesters coming out.

It's honestly why I have a lot of respect for China. They RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO with other people all the time and commit terrible deeds. They know it, too. It's why they're so quiet in when everyone else is screaming at the US. Most other countries should take a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing cue and shut up.

I'm pretty sure the only countries that should have such a right not to stfu are Sweden, Switzerland, and Denmark.

Bush has no right in his criticism of Russian in Georgia; if you look it up there's practically no Russian government condemnation recently of our war in Iraq, simply because the Russians know they can't throw stones.

I sincerely believe every country should be made to either keep up the standard they set in their regard for other countries or they should mind their own business.

DarkFlame · Sep 04, 2008, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

So you'd prefer a guy who will f*ck up the US even more, and some batshit crazy vice-president?

Oh ok.

Honestly, one would have to try very hard to dig us into a deeper pit then we already are. But between the two, its hard to argue that Obama isn't green and just maybe a little out of his depth. And at least Palin would would be a better choice then Biden(who's just filling the same role as Cheney).

As for Israel, it complicates things, but it isn't the sole reason. Look at Venezuela, it has no reason to hate us because of Israel and yet it does(well at least Hugo does).

zeth006 · Sep 04, 2008, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFlame

Honestly, one would have to try very hard to dig us into a deeper pit then we already are. But between the two, its hard to argue that Obama isn't green and just maybe a little out of his depth. And at least Palin would would be a better choice then Biden(who's just filling the same role as Cheney).

As for Israel, it complicates things, but it isn't the sole reason. Look at Venezuela, it has no reason to hate us because of Israel and yet it does(well at least Hugo does).

Yes. It's because America's intelligence agency *cough* CIA *cough* tried to interfere with the elections.

But really, people. Don't bring in the religion where it doesn't belong. The current face of globalization has a very western face to it. American-style capitalism is the driving force behind it and a lot of Muslims in power who cling to strict conservative traditions see their positions of power eroding as a result of globalization. They thus feel the need to reinforce their traditions and lash out at who they see as the source of globalization--the US.

imnotyourmother · Sep 04, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Drake.

You hit the nail on the head when you said that this is a religious war. Anyone who thinks that the Muslims are peaceful need only read the Koran.

Also if anyone thinks that the Muslims care if they are a "Christian" or not and there for needs to die are deceiving themselves as they MUST KILL EVERYONE that is not a Muslims. This is written in the Koran.

"You know what that source is?

Israel.

If it wasn't for us backing Israel up, we would be nowhere near this predicament. Not saying we should or shouldn't back Israel, but stating a clear reason as to why 9/11 and so forth escalated to what it is today."

THIS IS CORRECT.

The Jewish Torah hints at the friends of Israel (christian) being targeted by radicals against the ONE TRUE GOD. The Bible speaks in Revelations of this as well.

The US knew what it was doing by helping Israel. Please remember that the US was FOUNDED on CHRISTIAN Principals. This is Why we have the FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Try that in Turkey and see how long you live.

As for protecting the world um...WE ARE IN THE WORLD. Geesh. Freedom is not cheep and it is not free. It never has been.

People like to KILL EACH OTHER. That is what we do. This is human nature. Cane and Able. If you do not know who they are they were brother's that Killed each other over stupid stuff.

So it is our son's and daughter's, mother's and father's that are KILLING themselves so that we can say, "we don't need guns or ships or to help our neighbors just let them kill themselves." This mentality leads to the destruction of your society. Remember the TOWERS. It did not matter if not everyone was a Christian that died in the towers. if ONE Christian Died then that is enough.

So next are you going to throw all of the Christian's out of the county to make it safe? Is this not what NERO did in Rome?

Face it US is not a free country. It cost lives. 1 Billion is a drop in the bucket. There are 300 Million legal in the US. That is 3 bucks to keep a nation safe from the Crazies. I will gladly pay my 3 bucks and raise you 10.

Richardt · Sep 04, 2008, 05:22 PM // 17:22

I've never seen a more ignorant approach to Islam than what you just posted.

Historically, Islam has been one of the most tolerant religions in the world. When they conquered the Middle East, N. Africa and bits of Europe-they truly didn't care what religion you were! All they did was say "You're not a Muslim, so pay this tax. It'll end if you convert". It wasn't until CHRISTIAN forces massacred their way into Jerusalem that the idea of Jihad as a HOLY WAR came about. Before that Jihad was a struggle for faith-meaing anything from having doubts about God to talking to your Jewish neighbor about Islam. Before you go hating on Islam-remember who taught them to do it-Christians.

And remember-the group of Islamists that follow Jihad as holy war is small-by and large Islam today is still pretty liberal (barring local customs etc.).

For more modern things-the situation in Iraq should never had happened! At the end of WWI when the Ottoman Empire fell apart, Iraq was three seperate provinces-the Ottomans realized that it would be smart to keep things seperate. The U.S. and allies didn't listen to that and said "Y'all play nice now ya hear?".

The roots of the Middle East issues doesn't lie in what we did recently-they go back CENTURIES. The U.S. literally is paying for mistakes that were made before Columbus made his way over.

And for my part, I'm outraged that the U.S. is throwing money at a government that for no reason attacked and massacred unarmed civilians. We're not paying $3 bucks a person to keep us safe from the Crazies-we're paying the Crazies! We did the same thing to Bin Laden in the 80's and look how well that turned out for us!

And by the way-Turkey is pretty liberal-we have a couple guys in my lab that are from Turkey, and when asked what's the difference between living in America and living in Turkey they responded with "Language and Climate".

So Arkantos-how's the moose hunting this time of year?

Abedeus · Sep 04, 2008, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by imnotyourmother

Drake.

You hit the nail on the head when you said that this is a religious war. Anyone who thinks that the Muslims are peaceful need only read the Koran.

Jihad refers to fighting for Islam (or for other religions, respectively) to be equal, read about it on Wiki. Just because some pissed off Muslim extremists think that terrorism is good doesn't mean everyone is like that.

*cough* holy wars *cough* christians burning cities and killing people *cough* Sorry, my throat and jada jada jada.

Richardt · Sep 04, 2008, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

*cough* holy wars *cough* christians burning cities and killing people *cough* Sorry, my throat and jada jada jada.

I have that too from time to time. Must be a cold going around.

Earth · Sep 04, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Funny how some people think EVERY muslim is a terrorist and absolutely hate any other religion. One of my friends is a muslim actually, and she's very nice. ANOTHER of my friends is a Jehovah's Witness, and they get along just fine and are totally open to each other's religion.

There are Muslims out there that want America, and other countries destroyed. This does NOT mean that every Muslim is a terrorist. Those Muslim terrorists actually FORCE other Muslims to do suicide attacks, so innocent people, that were forced to kill themselves because they were brainwashed, die, while the real big ones stay behind the scenes.

Also, Abedeus is pretty right. Alot of people forget that Christians did the same, if not worse things.

Just my 0.02$.

miraaz · Sep 04, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

lol.

If US would be demolished and completely RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up by Russia, and you need help, and if the Europe would say "Hey, sorry, we got better shit to spend our money on, you're on your own, now piss off", then would you be happy?
Georgia got demolished, and I mean demolished by Russia. And in case you didn't know, Russia started the conflict, so why shouldn't US help Georgia?m After all US is one of the richest countries on earth.
By the way, to the person who said that US should spend money on improving the health department, just so you know, people in Georgia are also human, so stop being an egoistic asshole and think that only americans are people.

Earth · Sep 04, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraaz

lol.

If US would be demolished and completely RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up by Russia, and you need help, and if the Europe would say "Hey, sorry, we got better shit to spend our money on, you're on your own, now piss off", then would you be happy?
Georgia got demolished, and I mean demolished by Russia. And in case you didn't know, Russia started the conflict, so why shouldn't US help Georgia?m After all US is one of the richest countries on earth.
By the way, to the person who said that US should spend money on improving the health department, just so you know, people in Georgia are also human, so stop being an egoistic asshole and think that only americans are people.

They're actually heavily in debt to other countries.

Taurucis · Sep 04, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFlame

And at least Palin would would be a better choice then Biden(who's just filling the same role as Cheney).

You mean Biden is just shooting people accidentally on hunting trips? -.0

I'll tell you what America needs.

We need...

more Freedom.

Nude Nira · Sep 04, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

So you'd prefer a guy who will f*ck up the US even more, and some batshit crazy vice-president?

Oh ok.

And you don't think all of Obama's "new policies" (tax raises) won't RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO the US up too?

Oh ok.

Actually, if he does get in, he'll just get assassinated anyway. I assume there's some pretty pissed off people in the deep south...

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraaz

After all US is one of the richest countries on earth.

And probally the one of the deepest in debt...I need to bring it out.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Issac · Sep 04, 2008, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by placebo overdose

this is another dumb political debate where it doesnt belong im gonna say two things
1. neither side is all right or all wrong we need to find a reasonable middle ground
2. http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Damn, you beat me to the debt clock lol.

Shadow Kurd · Sep 04, 2008, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFlame

As for Israel, it complicates things, but it isn't the sole reason. Look at Venezuela, it has no reason to hate us because of Israel and yet it does(well at least Hugo does).

One of the reason (or Hugo's) for hating you is that (North) America doesn't allow fair trade for South America. Which in turn keeps the South American economy down and the people poor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by imnotyourmother

Drake.

You hit the nail on the head when you said that this is a religious war. Anyone who thinks that the Muslims are peaceful need only read the Koran.
(...)
Face it US is not a free country. It cost lives. 1 Billion is a drop in the bucket. There are 300 Million legal in the US. That is 3 bucks to keep a nation safe from the Crazies. I will gladly pay my 3 bucks and raise you 10.

There are between 1 billion and 1.8 billion Muslims in the world. If the Koran did say "Kill all non-muslim" you'd be living in a whole other world right now.

Everything you just said comes down to Xenophobia and/or Islamophobia.

komma · Sep 04, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

what do the bush admin. and this thread have in common....they both fail!

obama will be the best thing to happen to your country whether you can admit it or not. that is the brutal reality behind it so i suggest embracing him whether he is in-experienced or not.

Master Fuhon · Sep 04, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

A country is a social construct, just like NATO, UN or any religion. What happens most of the time is that the social construct takes on its own being, and tries to survive for as long as it can. The problem sometimes lies in that a person is left to try to make interpretations of how the entity can survive best. Religious fanatics kill other people because they worry about losing followers. The UN rarely gets involved in combative action because it's afraid of losing countries by taking sides. Television media is a social construct, and some countries recognize this so well that they choose to control it.While it's not wrong to criticize a current president, the final judgement on presidential decisions comes down far in the future when all the consequences are known.

Even sciences are like a construct, if you left it alone people may kill and torture and experiment to enhance science. It's why we need to stick our foot in the door as a country, just to find out what's going on. We have to bribe Georgia to do it, we kind of just bashed the door down in Iraq and Afghanistan and found some wierd stuff going down. While it wasn't the most perfect method, we are better off knowing that some people are plotting the destruction of everything behind some doors than going on with our clueless lives. The most reliable way to find out a country is building a nuclear arsenal is when they drop it on someone, but I don't think thats a better method than randomly knocking on doors. Knocking on doors and asking has never worked. Right now we are at the stage of blowing up doors, searching rooms, and then helping people sort things out afterwards; I recognize we need to refine the process.

It's never been about what the individual wants, because most of us want stuff in our own self interest. It's why we would never be in charge; left to our own opinions we might kill the social structure. The wrong president would allow the US to deteriorate in strength, and break apart into little fragments that become assimilated by more powerful countries. On a smaller scale think about it like running a guild, you can disband it (any time you hate what it has become) and leave the people fending for themselves. They usually try to reform, but they end up getting swallowed by a more powerful structure that has been around longer. On this kind of scale, giving out a billion dollars is not much different than guesting someone from another guild to survive. Even if that guild gets good enought to beat you, you are still preserving your spot in the power structure as the guild that trains/influences others. At best, that guild could become part of your alliance and could help you out during a future downtime.

I would say that one of our strongest founding principals is as a promoter/defender of freedom (our freedoms > others if forced to choose). In this case, I would agree with the recommendation of that robot. While not being a social construct, he appears to be grade-A kick ass. I would also recommend use of that robot against the people parroting stuff from the television media in this thread. I believe the countries that aren't seriously in debt right now are the ones where the people are.

Taurucis · Sep 04, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Fuhon

I would say that one of our strongest founding principals is as a promoter/defender of freedom (our freedoms > others if forced to choose). In this case, I would agree with the recommendation of that robot. While not being a social construct, he appears to be grade-A kick ass. I would also recommend use of that robot against the people parroting stuff from the television media in this thread. I believe the countries that aren't seriously in debt right now are the ones where the people are.

That robot is sexy as hell and you know it

... Or at least I know it... ^^

Look at it this way - a country is made up of lots and lots of people. Take an individual for example - naturally, he/she wouldn't sacrifice everything just to make others happy, unless he/she was some kind of extreme masochist. It is human nature to protect yourself and survive... and that makes sense. In the animal kingdom you don't see zebras just lying down so that the lions can make a meal out of them - the zebras run for their lives. So what sense does it make for a country to lie down and let other countries walk all over them just to show how generous they are?

There is generosity... and then there is absolute idiocy.

some guy · Sep 04, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

I rather learn the evolution theory than some religious shit.

Flame me all you want religion freaks.

Master Fuhon · Sep 04, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

I know I've had a conversation like this before. We do expect "something" in return for whatever we give. Expect to get bombarded with our culture, ideals, and possibly have a few ears and eyes placed in your country when you accept our money.

The nation is looking after it's own self interest after all.